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Anyone want to discuss the differences between these drums? Are they different drums? Are they different names for the same drums? Are they geographical names for the same or different drums? How do Kenkini, Sangban and Dununba fit in? I look forward to some discussion! Thanks!
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Re: Dunun vs. Dun dun vs. Djun djun?
Thu, August 16, 2007 - 9:36 AMThe most common name for the "sangba choir" is "dunnuns". Some call it "dun dun" and the term "djun djun" was as the result of Michael "Babatunde" Olatunji mispronouncing dunnun because he thought it similar to djembe. Since "Baba" (God rest his beautiful soul) was so important to the introduction of West African rhythms and drums to the Western hemisphere all that he said was accepted as gospel. These "dunnuns" were not used in Nigeria where "Baba" was from so they were somewhat alien to him. It was "Papa" Ladji Camara that was one of the first Africans besides Baba to be part of "Drums of Passion" that tried friutlessly to get Baba to start calling these drums by their proper names and eventually even Papa gave up and started calling them djun djuns. Baba was primarily an ashiko player not a djembe player. He began playing djembe after meeting Papa Ladji. Baba was extremely well versed in the music and rhythms of the Yoruba people and had an uncanny ability to pick up the character of other rhythms and music from other cultures, but he was not an expert in Malinke music.
The "dunnuns are played by the people of Cote' Ivoire, Mali, Guinea, Senegal and Birkina Faso. The Susu people of Guinea play another form of bass drums called Bote which are very large hemisperical gourds with greased cowhide stretched over them (they look a lot like primitive timpanis). Clyndrical double headed bass drums are common in almost every culture in the world and they all have different names for them, but only in the Americas are the West African ones called "djun djuns". -
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Re: Dunun vs. Dun dun vs. Djun djun?
Sat, August 18, 2007 - 1:14 AMI thought they called them djun djuns in Senegal. At least that's what the Senegalese drummers I know call them, as well as people I know who have studied with Senegalese drummers. I just assumed that that's where it came from, but I claim no special expertise on the matter.
I heard Mamady Keita be very explicit about pronunciation at a workshop I took with him years ago. He said, "These are Malinke drums. They are called dununs. Do not call them djun djuns."
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Re: Dunun vs. Dun dun vs. Djun djun?
Sat, August 18, 2007 - 7:20 PMA wealth of information. Thanks!
It seems that some rhythms do not acknowledge the sangban, they have parts for kenkini and dununba only. Is this a regional thing?
Also, It seems that some rhythms have identical djembe parts but the dunun parts differ. What is the importance of each instrument? What role does each instrument play (no pun intended)? -
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Re: Dunun vs. Dun dun vs. Djun djun?
Thu, August 23, 2007 - 3:12 AMSounds like you're trying to learn this stuff from a book, Allen. If you have the opportunity, I strongly recommend studying with an African who has mastered these rhythms, even if it's just an occasional workshop. There's nothing like learning from the source!
What rhythms have you found that just use dununba & kenkeni? Could be Mali/Bamana rhythms, which usually have just two dunun parts, but the dununs there are actually called something different (jeli dunun, which is kinda like a dununba, & konkoni, which functions more like a sangban, but maybe would get notated as a kenkeni because of similar spelling). If you name the rhythms, we could probably tell you about regional origin. As I understand it, the dununba/sangban/kenkeni family are originally specific to Malinke drumming, particularly in the Hamana region, but have now become widely popular, & are often used as the default in rhythmic notation. As rhythms from other ethnic groups (Susu, Baga, Bamana, etc.) get adapted to these drums, they may or may not employ all three drums in the d/s/k family.
In Malinke rhythms, the rhythm is mostly defined by the sangban, or the sangban/dununba conversation. Kenkeni parts are often the same across different rhythms, as well as djembe accompaniment parts. Some rhythms will have very specific djembe accompaniment parts unique to that rhythm, but there are a few djembe parts (both in 4/4 & 6/8) that are common to many different rhythms.
Hope that all makes sense & helps a little... -
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Re: Dunun vs. Dun dun vs. Djun djun?
Thu, August 23, 2007 - 9:49 AM
I would agree with Lansing that if possible, take some classes with a variety of source musicians. Djembe-L listserve online offers a list of teachers by state and city.
The styles vary from area to area, and the Bamara in Sengal will play different rhythms than Djeli's in Mali or people in Sankaran. For something completely different in Dunun drumming, check out the album "Khassonka Dunun" its Mali Jeli dunun playing that is a very fluid style which is rarely heard outside of Mali. you might want to compare and contrast that (track 3) "Dansa" with "Djansa" from Guinea. You can hear the same root sangban part,(is it even played on a "sangban"?) but everthing else is different. -
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Re: Dunun vs. Dun dun vs. Djun djun?
Thu, August 23, 2007 - 5:02 PMi wouldn't call it different by any means. there are tons of variations for the dununba part in djansa.
often times what you hear in a 'guinea' djansa is just or 2 one of the variations played as the dununba part.
the djansa dununba part is one of the most funked up parts in the entire khassonke and bambara repertoire.
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Re: Dunun vs. Dun dun vs. Djun djun?
Thu, September 6, 2007 - 1:58 PMPlaying the dununba and kenkeni in combination allows a single player to give both high and low notes of an overall dunun melody. So I think it's partly just the circumstances, of how many players and drums are available. Also a matter of preference, as the upright low and high drums are sometimes used to play a combo part, where again the sangban might get left out.
Actually the sangban melody (if I understand Famoudou Konate's teaching correctly) is really the core melody of the dununs, and the one that the lead djembe soloist plays with most. The kenkeni is more of a timekeeper, and the dununba is also a foundation on the bass end, though with more variations and offbeats possible. The accompaniment djembe parts also serve as timekeepers; the real melody distinguishing a piece is found in the combination of dunun patterns, and especially in the sangban.
cheers,
Nowick
djemberhythms.com -
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Re: Dunun vs. Dun dun vs. Djun djun?
Thu, September 6, 2007 - 2:24 PMYou are quite correct in that Nowick, and that is exactly what Famoudou and Mamady Keita say on the subject, so I wouldn't argue with those two. Mamady always says if you only have one dunnun player show up, then that player plays sangban, kenkeni is spice and dununba is power and bass, but the sanban tells you what the rhythm is. -
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Re: Dunun vs. Dun dun vs. Djun djun?
Fri, September 7, 2007 - 9:16 AMI have previously understood that the sangban part is the main rhythm and the priority of the dununs.
I am having trouble locating the previously mentioned rhythms of kenkini and dununba only, will keep looking.
I can point towards a particular rhythm, Sinte, where the sangban and kenkini parts are indicated to be played by a single player, (for what that is worth).
Moving on... ballet style. The sangban part would get priority. Next, where would the priorities lie when determining the addition of kenkini and dununba parts? Spice and timekeeping or foundation, power and offbeats? I know we are starting to split hairs but it is interesting conversation none-the-less.
Thanks! -
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Re: Dunun vs. Dun dun vs. Djun djun?
Sun, September 9, 2007 - 2:45 AMI think it would depend on the rhythm. Some rhythms are very much rooted in the sangban/dununba conversation. Djaa, Sorsonet, & Tiriba are a few that come to mind. They pretty much need both sangban & dununba together to make sense. For some rhythms, the sangban & kenkeni might give the most complete sense of the rhythm, or maybe the dununba & kenkeni (e.g., Soli de Manian). It depends on what you are playing & what you are wanting to hear, I think.
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Re: Dunun vs. Dun dun vs. Djun djun?
Thu, August 16, 2007 - 9:39 AMAll of those names are phonetic spellings for the same type of West African drums. The Kenkini is the smallest of the three drums in the set. The Sangban is the middle sized drum and the Dununba is the "Big" drum. I believe the word "ba" means big in Sousou. I don't know if the different spellings of dundun are regional or not, but it sounds probable to me.
