I'm trying to find notation for this rythm. I know I have played it once, but have forgotten.
thanks
carl
thanks
carl
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Re: Sunnu?
Mon, May 28, 2007 - 11:41 PM -
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Re: Sunnu?
Tue, May 29, 2007 - 2:36 AMHey Carl-
Notation for Sunu (& many more!) can be found here:
www.paulnas.eu/wap/sounou.html
These seem to be the same parts as on the site Andrew gave, but there are different ways of playing Sunu -- different arrangements & feels. This version seems more Guinea/Malinke-style, I think -- more "square", because of the kenkeni & djembe 2 parts, than the way you'd hear it in Bamako, for example. (Also, the notated version has the first dununba press in a different place than I learned it.) I personally prefer Sunu w/o the heavy downbeat emphasis of the kenkeni & 2nd djembe part -- then you're just left with the Sunu funk that I love so much. Sunu is one of the first rhythms I learned long ago, & remains one of my favorites. There's another funky dunun/konkoni line that goes with a version called Sunu Karata -- sounds great together with the dununba/jelidunun line notated here. I'll show it to you if I see you this summer. There's also a bunch of great variations you can do on the dununba. Sunu -- smell the funk! -
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Re: Sunnu?
Tue, May 29, 2007 - 8:43 PMWhats up LanSing? You were missed at D.V. last weekend!
I think you hit it on the head about the diversity of rhythms known as Sunu. I still cant figure it out since there is much
variation in the feel. usually whoever wants to play it sets me up on dunun and play what they know. I will ask Bolo
about it next week at class and see what he says.
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Re: Sunnu?
Tue, May 29, 2007 - 11:12 PMHa!
Thanks you gentlemen! I gues that gives me some options! I guess I will follow P's lead and play what I am set with. Another ocasion I started playing Sunun following Mamaday's notation and was corrected!
That is a cool link Andrew! Thanks! While I perfer playing one Dundun and bell... I think I should familiarize myself with playing it as a set.
peace
carl
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Re: Sunnu?
Thu, May 31, 2007 - 3:54 AMYeah, I missed y'all -- haven't been able to hook up my transportation for the last couple years... :(
Sunu variations I've heard haven't been too huge when played in 4/4, but there's also a Sunu in 6/8 that I've never really learned properly. I've heard some very different variations of that one, some of which just sound like the 4/4 parts swung into 6/8, others seem very different. The Mali versions I've heard start out in 4/4, then speed up & switch into 6/8.
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Re: Sunnu?
Fri, June 1, 2007 - 6:50 AMHello!
I have learned this rhythm from Mamady Keita. The rhythm is called Sunun, and the best representation of it online is on the WAP pages, or in Mamady's book "A Life for the Djembe" which is the best investment you can make as a djembe player short of actually taking classes with Mamady Keita, Famoudou Konate, or Adama Drame.
Any 'variation' people are referring to IS not correct. This is why people get so confused about learning these rhythms and why Mamady and Famoudou work so hard to teach the correct rhythms to ensure the accurate notation of their history. There are many teachers out there - African and non-African - that learn these rhythms the wrong way, and then teach them the wrong way. It is hard to sift through all of this.
If you want to know the true rhythms, learn from the masters, of which there are only 3 living which I mentioned above.
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Re: Sunnu?
Sun, June 3, 2007 - 7:23 PMThere are many truths out there. All cultures are constantly changing so when there is a diversity of rhythm it is because it is not all played the same way everywhere. Every village has its own versions of rhythms, thats why there are many Soli's/ Soko's and dozens of Dununbas. Its not a question of right or wrong.
Incidentally, I asked Bolokada about Sunu and he said they did not play it in his village in Guinea. He said it is from Mali.
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Re: Sunnu?
Mon, June 4, 2007 - 10:14 AMI’m going to try to address a lot of points in this email:
Let’s remember that there’s no “absolutes” when it comes to this music.
Like P said, different villages and different regions play the rhythms differently. Saying that a “variation” is not correct is confined thinking. Mamady has repeatedly told and encouraged me to study with as many teachers as i can. his example was to have a bunch of little pouches that you'd have for marbles: keep your famoudou in one little pouch, keep your soungalo over here, keep your bolo stuff over here, keep you mamady stuff in this pouch. That's the approach i've taken and it's worked out. the end goal is to be able to play anything and everything the way people want to hear it. study and learn it all, but know the difference.
Also, I’ve learned Sunu from MK and if you listen, you can hear all the other variations of the 4/4 Sunu inside. The sangban and kenkeni are added parts along with 2nd accomp to fill out an ensemble.
It is my understanding that often time sunun will start out really slow in 4/4 so the griots can sing their songs. When it intensifies with dance is when it switches to the 6/8 version. A great example is on Mady Keita’s newest disc or Rainer Polak's recording Bamako Foli.
I agree that if you want to learn the music, study with the Masters. Audio and notation can only get you so far. But along with MK, FK and Adama, there are more master drummers out there: Fadouba Oulare, Koumbagna Conde, Fatouabou Camara and those are a few of the Guineans I know of. I’m not sure who the big time Mali or Ivorienne Masters are at this time.
In my opinion, what distinguishes a true Master is not only the wealth of cultural and traditional knowledge, but mastery of technique. The sound of the hand should be clean, loud and equal in both hands.
My $0.02.
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Re: Sunnu?
Tue, June 5, 2007 - 4:46 PMWow! In so few words you've managed to brush aside dozens of living masters. Kind of like saying Robert Johnson, Son House, and Charlie Patton are the only blues legends so fuck the rest.
Well anyway, Mamady et al are truly worthy of their titles and have done much to record and annotate this living tradition....HOWEVER, if one wanted to get the down-low on Sunnu/Sunun and how it's played, learn from a Bamana master like Abdoulaye Diakite or Abdoul Doumbia. Sunu comes from the Mali region and the likes of Mamady and Famoudou had to go there to learn it. Consequently when the rhythm (like all rhythms imported to another area) came to be played on the 3 dunun style of Upper Guinea the feeling changed. The Mali djelidunun style has got the funk that Lance was talking about, and you can't learn it by looking at a book or listening to instructional CDs.
There are several reasons for the "confusion" over the differing versions of a rhythm. First, there is much diversity from village to village, region to region, tribe to tribe, etc. People in Village A might play the exact line as the neighboring village, but omit a press, add a tone, or whatever. Second, many of these rhythms are not static, but change over time to suit the needs and expressive nature of each succeeding generation. Third, the popular majority of rhythms folks learn in the West come to us from a small handful of masters like Mamady, Famoudou, Bolokada, etc. Not to negate their styles, but there are dozens of other masters in Africa who have never made it to the West, but Westerners make it to their villages and learn in their environment and then bring back that knowledge which may not be found in someone's book or CD. Fourth, there are "Mamady Nazis" out there who take his teaching as the gospel truth. All respect due to Mamady, I have his book, CD, movie, have taken workshops from him, etc., but he ain't the only one on the planet who knows the tradition. Just because someone teaches a different version of Soko, Soli, Sunu, or Crossroads Blues doesn't mean it ain't right. Genetic diversity ensures survival of organisms on this planet, just as artistic diversity ensures the continuation of beauty, and as diversity of opinions ensures free speech. -
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Re: Sunnu?
Wed, June 6, 2007 - 3:39 PMfor every mamady nazi, there's an abdoulaye diakite "nazi", a famoudou "nazi", a doumbia "nazi", a guinea rules your face "nazi", a Mali rocks your head "nazi" etc etc etc etc.
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